Why did Junior try to kill Tony in season 1 and then it was all just forgotten?

[JoshFromMichigan]

Regarding the Russian, David Chase said he wanted to have a scene later in the series where Christopher sees the Russian mopping a floor and they make eye contact. The Russian doesn't recognize him because of the head injury but he stares at him because he feels like he knows Christopher from somewhere. I think some writer talked him out of it and said it's better left a mystery.

 

[guest]

Thats right we’re talkin about you, you cagey fawk. You got em all fooled

 

[Stent]

You mean to tell me this scene doesn’t win you over?

The more I see of that show, the more I realize how little of it was grounded in reality.

 

[Guest]

Regarding the Russian, David Chase said he wanted to have a scene later in the series where Christopher sees the Russian mopping a floor and they make eye contact. The Russian doesn't recognize him because of the head injury but he stares at him because he feels like he knows Christopher from somewhere. I think some writer talked him out of it and said it's better left a mystery.

I think you have it backwards. I thought the writer wanted to do it and Chase denied it.

 

[Guest]

Every show with a killer protagonist does this. Vic Mackey on The Shield had children with autism. Dexter takes in a single mother and her kids. Walter White has a retarded son and is a dweeb. The Sopranos did it in a mocking way where Tony literally does not care when people are murdered, walks away from his nearly cooked alive girlfriend like it is nothing, but burst into tears over ducks that flew away or a horse that burned alive. With the all time classic joke of Furio crying over his dead father and Tony saying for him not to be weak. "You gotta get over that". And immediately cuts to him blubbering over the horse painting. Tony also gets into it with Ralph over a horse initially and then murders him over fat jokes (because he was looking for any reason to whack Ralph because of Tracy the stripper). Yet excuses Ralph's countless murders and assaults of civilians on behalf of the mafia.

Shows always go for some emotional way to make you like the main anti-hero character. Like Vic Mackey solves a bunch of pedophiles crimes using unorthodox police work. Dexter kills pedophiles. The first season of The Wire has a female cop get brutally shot to take the case from a nothing case to the most important case in the entire department where the stakes are now hugely amplified.

The only show where none of the characters had a single redeeming feature was OZ. Maybe Veep but that is more comedy than anything else. In OZ pretty much every character was a psychotic murderer or rapist by the end of the show except for a handful of guards or wardens or family members visiting their prisoner relative. Like I cannot think of a single character on OZ who would return to society properly who was a prisoner.

Breaking Bad went out of its way in the last seasons to rehabilitate Walt's image and Jesse's image. Making them go up against literally 'Muh Nazis'. And then beat them like some faggy DC Comics film. "Yeah bitch!! We killed some Nazis!!". They also made the Nazis child killers just to drive home that they were the new bad guys.

None of them care what is 'right'. Tony kills guys over literally nothing. As does everyone else. Tony is offered witness protection by the FBI multiple times and turns it down so he can instead go out and murder. Tony likes killing so much he even goes out on some of the hits. And kills his own crew members at opportune times like Ralph or Christopher. "We bend more rules than the Catholic Church". They do not even follow the mafia code over small things like Ralph insulting Ginny Sack for being obese. "98lbs mole removed from her ass".

Tony all knew Junior was right but did not care. Neither did their entire crew. Even in the last seasons Phil Leotardo says one of the reasons they should whack Tony is that he went against his own Uncle.

Surveillance was not there during the first three seasons as they were before 9/11. After season three you get the real life surveillance state where every deli or grocery store is now protecting itself like it is Ft Knox. The lack of DNA in the Sopranos is the sloppy writing of every single show where there are murders. Paulie might as well have left vials of blood and jars of semen samples in the room where he smothers Min Matrone to death. "You were always a little bastard!!!". They were never going to get caught with DNA just like neither was Walter White or Dexter. DNA only exists in The Wire and OZ.

Ralph lasted two seasons and it is explained that he was in Florida during the first two seasons. Richie and Tony B are the same characters. Two people that get out of prison and cannot adjust to society. But Tony comes to despise Richie early. And still loves Tony B until the end hence killing him before he can be tortured. So two similar characters but vastly different storylines. Phil Leotardo is around more than one season. And Feech was planned to be around longer but the actor had dementia and could not remember his lines so they quietly wrote him out of the show. David Chase still claims that Robert Loggia was not ill out of respect but people who worked on the show said he could not remember his lines. Pussy, Sil, Eugene, and lots of characters that died were around multiple seasons.

But most shows are like this. Dexter had a new villain every season. Boardwalk Empire would introduced a new villain and kill them off even. You have to remember that these shows would release one season a year or every two years. It worked compared to binge watching everything. This stuff becomes more glaring when you watch the show in one quick binge.

Someone like Terrance Winter was the true brains behind the show. Or David Chase is senile. Or David Chase sold out the Sopranos to some HBO hacks for Many Saints. No other explanations make sense. The drop in quality is insane.

I just started watching Oz for the first time recently. It’s hard to watch sometimes because it all plays into my nihilism. They’re all scum.

 

[guest]

The more I see of that show, the more I realize how little of it was grounded in reality.

"You guys these candles are getting wax all over the place" was an underrated cringy part of this scene.

 

[guest]

Every show with a killer protagonist does this. Vic Mackey on The Shield had children with autism. Dexter takes in a single mother and her kids. Walter White has a retarded son and is a dweeb. The Sopranos did it in a mocking way where Tony literally does not care when people are murdered, walks away from his nearly cooked alive girlfriend like it is nothing, but burst into tears over ducks that flew away or a horse that burned alive. With the all time classic joke of Furio crying over his dead father and Tony saying for him not to be weak. "You gotta get over that". And immediately cuts to him blubbering over the horse painting. Tony also gets into it with Ralph over a horse initially and then murders him over fat jokes (because he was looking for any reason to whack Ralph because of Tracy the stripper). Yet excuses Ralph's countless murders and assaults of civilians on behalf of the mafia.

Shows always go for some emotional way to make you like the main anti-hero character. Like Vic Mackey solves a bunch of pedophiles crimes using unorthodox police work. Dexter kills pedophiles. The first season of The Wire has a female cop get brutally shot to take the case from a nothing case to the most important case in the entire department where the stakes are now hugely amplified.

The only show where none of the characters had a single redeeming feature was OZ. Maybe Veep but that is more comedy than anything else. In OZ pretty much every character was a psychotic murderer or rapist by the end of the show except for a handful of guards or wardens or family members visiting their prisoner relative. Like I cannot think of a single character on OZ who would return to society properly who was a prisoner.

Breaking Bad went out of its way in the last seasons to rehabilitate Walt's image and Jesse's image. Making them go up against literally 'Muh Nazis'. And then beat them like some faggy DC Comics film. "Yeah bitch!! We killed some Nazis!!". They also made the Nazis child killers just to drive home that they were the new bad guys.

None of them care what is 'right'. Tony kills guys over literally nothing. As does everyone else. Tony is offered witness protection by the FBI multiple times and turns it down so he can instead go out and murder. Tony likes killing so much he even goes out on some of the hits. And kills his own crew members at opportune times like Ralph or Christopher. "We bend more rules than the Catholic Church". They do not even follow the mafia code over small things like Ralph insulting Ginny Sack for being obese. "98lbs mole removed from her ass".

Tony all knew Junior was right but did not care. Neither did their entire crew. Even in the last seasons Phil Leotardo says one of the reasons they should whack Tony is that he went against his own Uncle.

Surveillance was not there during the first three seasons as they were before 9/11. After season three you get the real life surveillance state where every deli or grocery store is now protecting itself like it is Ft Knox. The lack of DNA in the Sopranos is the sloppy writing of every single show where there are murders. Paulie might as well have left vials of blood and jars of semen samples in the room where he smothers Min Matrone to death. "You were always a little bastard!!!". They were never going to get caught with DNA just like neither was Walter White or Dexter. DNA only exists in The Wire and OZ.

Ralph lasted two seasons and it is explained that he was in Florida during the first two seasons. Richie and Tony B are the same characters. Two people that get out of prison and cannot adjust to society. But Tony comes to despise Richie early. And still loves Tony B until the end hence killing him before he can be tortured. So two similar characters but vastly different storylines. Phil Leotardo is around more than one season. And Feech was planned to be around longer but the actor had dementia and could not remember his lines so they quietly wrote him out of the show. David Chase still claims that Robert Loggia was not ill out of respect but people who worked on the show said he could not remember his lines. Pussy, Sil, Eugene, and lots of characters that died were around multiple seasons.

But most shows are like this. Dexter had a new villain every season. Boardwalk Empire would introduced a new villain and kill them off even. You have to remember that these shows would release one season a year or every two years. It worked compared to binge watching everything. This stuff becomes more glaring when you watch the show in one quick binge.

Someone like Terrance Winter was the true brains behind the show. Or David Chase is senile. Or David Chase sold out the Sopranos to some HBO hacks for Many Saints. No other explanations make sense. The drop in quality is insane.

Another example I like is Tony getting angry at Pat Parisi for grieving his brother, and basically telling him to get over it or else. Then in the same episode, he's significantly more worked up about his water heater blowing. He's completely emotionally stunted.

 

[guest]

Another example I like is Tony getting angry at Pat Parisi for grieving his brother, and basically telling him to get over it or else. Then in the same episode, he's significantly more worked up about his water heater blowing. He's completely emotionally stunted.

Tony really is a piece of shit but his character is completely believable.

 

[LingerLonger]

The more I see of that show, the more I realize how little of it was grounded in reality.

The only reason they had Skylar sing Happy Birthday was because Fran Feldstein did it on Sopranos. No other reason. Vince Gilligan would sit around like a dope and just take entire Sopranos scenes and put Breaking Bad characters in them. Pretty much every famous scene in BB or BCS is ripped off from another show or movie. Like the famous courtroom meltdown scene in BCS with Chuck is stolen from The Caine Mutiny where the captain has a mental breakdown over the theft of strawberries.

Literally every scene in BB or BCS was copied from another movie. Down the stupid machine gun ending from Scarface where Walt is wielding a magic pop-up machine gun from his trunk.

 

[guest]

The only reason they had Skylar sing Happy Birthday was because Fran Feldstein did it on Sopranos. No other reason. Vince Gilligan would sit around like a dope and just take entire Sopranos scenes and put Breaking Bad characters in them. Pretty much every famous scene in BB or BCS is ripped off from another show or movie. Like the famous courtroom meltdown scene in BCS with Chuck is stolen from The Caine Mutiny where the captain has a mental breakdown over the theft of strawberries.

Literally every scene in BB or BCS was copied from another movie. Down the stupid machine gun ending from Scarface where Walt is wielding a magic pop-up machine gun from his trunk.

You don't think this scene where the twin drops a cigarette in slow motion and then slowly walk away from a truck blowing up, without looking back, is original and not hacky?

[MEDIA=youtube]HOo67CmxEsc:207[/MEDIA]

I really can't believe I was obsessed with this shit.

 

[Stent]

Literally every scene in BB or BCS was copied from another movie. Down the stupid machine gun ending from Scarface where Walt is wielding a magic pop-up machine gun from his trunk.

I thought for sure they were building up that ending to be everything goes wrong because of Walt's hubris but then the machine gun saves the day and it was all very stupid.

 

[guest]

Tony really is a piece of shit but his character is completely believable.

I think that's why I love the arguments in Whitecaps so much. When Tony and Carmela are really going at it, I'm like "fuck, I've had this argument!" Maybe not to those extremes, but still.

Also, @LingerLonger you and Torquie have pulled a Patrice with Face-Off on me. I was under no delusion that BCS was good, but I think BB might fucking stink too. I'll definitely never watch it again. I've cited that courtroom scene in BCS as great, and The Caine Mutiny thing never clicked for me. Fucking idiot I am. I'll still stand by Cranston's performance, but man everything you guys point out is really valid. Maybe because I'm older now, and I watched it when it aired originally.

 

[guest]

I think that's why I love the arguments in Whitecaps so much. When Tony and Carmela are really going at it, I'm like "fuck, I've had this argument!" Maybe not to those extremes, but still.

Also, @LingerLonger you and Torquie have pulled a Patrice with Face-Off on me. I was under no delusion that BCS was good, but I think BB might fucking stink too. I'll definitely never watch it again. I've cited that courtroom scene in BCS as great, and The Caine Mutiny thing never clicked for me. Fucking idiot I am. I'll still stand by Cranston's performance, but man everything you guys point out is really valid. Maybe because I'm older now, and I watched it when it aired originally.

I love Chuck's character so much. If BCS was just about Chuck and Jimmy, and no cartel, Kim, Mike, other breaking bad characters, then it'd be fucking awesome.

They could give Saul a better love interest than Kim. The show has 1 great concept (Chuck, his illness, his contempt for his brother). Needed more than that to be GOAT.

 

[Stent]

I love Chuck's character so much. If BCS was just about Chuck and Jimmy, and no cartel, Kim, Mike, other breaking bad characters, then it'd be fucking awesome.

I agree. Trying to turn it into a BB prequel rather than being its own thing within the same universe was a mistake.

 

[JonHeDoesIt]

This is explained throughout the show. Tony's father was in prison his whole life when he was young. So Uncle Junior raised him and taught him how to play catch and basically was his father. Melfi once asks Tony about his "father growing up" and Tony responds with something like "my father......I remember one time Uncle Junior and I were playing catch". Because Tony instinctively sees Junior as his father and his actual father as a stranger. Junior is his real father figure. Not his maniac father who cuts off a guy's finger over $100. Half of his therapy is about Tony never admitting he hates his father for showing him the mafia life and encouraging him to join.

So when Junior tries to kill Tony he refuses to accept that Junior and his own mother hate him. He puts the blame on anything else that he can. His mother was demented. Junior did it purely over business and it was not personal at all. Tony wants his own family to like him because he carries traditional values and appearances matter greatly to him. He wants to look normal to the world and be respected despite being a murderer and terrible husband and father.

And he also works hard to try to mend the relationship with Junior and even his own mother. Both fail as his mother dies before they can resolve their issues. And Junior shoots Tony out of paranoia and no longer even recognizing Tony as his nephew and by that point Carmela had warned Tony it was dangerous to leave Junior alive. Deep down inside Tony knows Junior and his father were pieces of shit. But to admit that he also has to admit that he himself is a mafia thug loser who behaves the exact same way. He cannot admit that the mafia is an evil institution and that he is immoral.

Christopher also sees Tony as his father as well. And look how well that relationship worked out.

So the point is that Tony always Junior. And Christopher comes to hate Tony. But they keep it bottled up which causes them to be angry and depressed and miserable. Remember Christopher hugging Tony at his kid's baptism? They all hate each other. But they cannot admit it openly.

Way to stick the landing, stupid.

 

[LingerLonger]

I thought for sure they were building up that ending to be everything goes wrong because of Walt's hubris but then the machine gun saves the day and it was all very stupid.

But when did anything go wrong for Walter in the end?

- Gus skips taking his car out of magic cautiousness.......only to go into a room the DEA was just in and get blown up
- Hank is one door open from busting Walter and Jesse and decides to flee the scene with no back up
- Hank meets Walt and Jesse in the desert alone with no back up without assuming Walter has cartel hitters with him
- Walt rests his entire scheme of turning Jesse on Gus on if a 500lbs ape can pickpocket someone of their cigarettes in .001 seconds flat
- Walt's wife gives all of his money away to Ted in some huge cliffhanger ending but then nothing happens after Ted turns into a shopping cart
- Gus's laptop is taken by the FBI, it has all of Walt's information....WILL SOMETHING HAPPEN?!!??!! No because "MAGNETS BITCH!!!"
- Walter is FBI most wanted number one, all assets frozen, manages to get an innocent business couple to launder his family drug money
- Walt is spotted at his home, after calling his son, FBI are all over for him, manages to meet in person with his wife and see his daughter
- Walt makes a machine gun that shoots right to left at the same height, magically kills all Nazis, does not wound Jesse
- Does not wound Tod, so that fags on reddit can react to Jesse killing Tod while yelling "yeah bitch!!" over and over
- Walt announces to Mike that hr has ordered the murder of Gale the chemist by reciting his home address like a retard, Mike does not call Gale's neighbors or the police to warn of an active shooter to foil Jesse from getting to the apartment, he does not call the apartment manager to have him call the police, he just lets Jesse kill Gale like a moron

There are probably 100 other stupid moments like this on BB, BCS, and the El Camino movie.

 

[guest]

But when did anything go wrong for Walter in the end?

- Gus skips taking his car out of magic cautiousness.......only to go into a room the DEA was just in and get blown up
- Hank is one door open from busting Walter and Jesse and decides to flee the scene with no back up
- Hank meets Walt and Jesse in the desert alone with no back up without assuming Walter has cartel hitters with him
- Walt rests his entire scheme of turning Jesse on Gus on if a 500lbs ape can pickpocket someone of their cigarettes in .001 seconds flat
- Walt's wife gives all of his money away to Ted in some huge cliffhanger ending but then nothing happens after Ted turns into a shopping cart
- Gus's laptop is taken by the FBI, it has all of Walt's information....WILL SOMETHING HAPPEN?!!??!! No because "MAGNETS BITCH!!!"
- Walter is FBI most wanted number one, all assets frozen, manages to get an innocent business couple to launder his family drug money
- Walt is spotted at his home, after calling his son, FBI are all over for him, manages to meet in person with his wife and see his daughter
- Walt makes a machine gun that shoots right to left at the same height, magically kills all Nazis, does not wound Jesse
- Does not wound Tod, so that fags on reddit can react to Jesse killing Tod while yelling "yeah bitch!!" over and over
- Walt announces to Mike that hr has ordered the murder of Gale the chemist by reciting his home address like a retard, Mike does not call Gale's neighbors or the police to warn of an active shooter to foil Jesse from getting to the apartment, he does not call the apartment manager to have him call the police, he just lets Jesse kill Gale like a moron

There are probably 100 other stupid moments like this on BB, BCS, and the El Camino movie.

The magnet thing was gay to me, even when I was originally watching it and all into the show. It's ridiculously stupid. And El Camino is absolutely terrible. The best climax they could come up with was a gun duel that never in a million years would have happened.

 

[Stent]

There are probably 100 other stupid moments like this on BB, BCS, and the El Camino movie.

I think it started to dawn on me how half-assed the show really was when they revealed his super-genius status back in college and how he could've been a billionaire with a Bentley. They couldn't oversell his character any harder if they tried.

 

[guest]

I think it started to dawn on me how half-assed the show really was when they revealed his super-genius status back in college and how he could've been a billionaire with a Bentley. They couldn't oversell his character any harder if they tried.

Yeah why exactly was he a high school teacher? Did they explain that?

 

[Stent]

Yeah why exactly was he a high school teacher? Did they explain that?

I don't know if they ever explained exactly how he ended up teaching. My assumption is because the writers think that's an embarrassing job. One step above the carwash job to them.

He went 20 years without any sign of being Lex Luthor. They could've written almost anything for his character to be really intelligent but they had to make it about billionaires and Nobel prize winning work. How will the audience know he messed up his life if we don't tell them he could've been Tony Stark?