ATHEIST HATE THREAD

[T-t-t-Terry!]

That is a great way of putting it. I know that personhood is not exclusive to humans in Christianity. Angels are persons. 2 forms of God are persons. But yeah. The universe doesn't need people. It was fine without us.

We're not talking about what I believe, Turk.

So if facts are independent of the human mind, where are they found in nature?

 

[T-t-t-Terry!]

Hey @Turry Fawks you know what we just did?

Shit up another thread with nonsense?

 

[Turk February]

We're not talking about what I believe, Turk.

So if facts are independent of the human mind, where are they found in nature?

In nature itself. You're basically asking "if a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound". Of course it does. But I suggest there are human facts which are fluid and based on consensus and facts of things which are based on matter and circumstance.

 

[Turk February]

Shit up another thread with nonsense?

The Canadians have highjacked another dumb American thread.

 

[Single Action Army]

 

[T-t-t-Terry!]

In nature itself.

So facts are material entities or what?

But I suggest there are human facts which are fluid and based on consensus and facts of things which are based on matter and circumstance.

You also concede that these consensus facts aren't actually facts so you're really just mislabeling opinions.

 

[Turk February]

View attachment 232193

This is going to become nostalgic to people and become cool. Probably in 5 or 10 years.

 

[Turk February]

So facts are material entities or what?

You also concede that these consensus facts aren't actually facts so you're really just mislabeling opinions.

As I mentioned earlier logic can't prove logic so it's hard to say what a fact is. And I think at the core of this discussion we failed to establish what we refer to when we say "fact".

 

[T-t-t-Terry!]

As I mentioned earlier logic can't prove logic so it's hard to say what a fact is. And I think at the core of this discussion we failed to establish what we refer to when we say "fact".

How about "an unchanging and unchangeable state of affairs ie. you are Turk and I am not Turk"

 

[Turk February]

I think what you asked was is if facts and concepts are objects. Yes, they are. Anything that interacts with another object is an object.

 

[Turk February]

How about "an unchanging and unchangeable state of affairs ie. you are Turk and I am not Turk"

We have no evidence for this. Just falsification in that it's never happened.

 

[T-t-t-Terry!]

I think what you asked was is if facts and concepts are objects. Yes, they are. Anything that interacts with another object is an object.

Okay so where are they and what are they composed of?

 

[Turk February]

How about "an unchanging and unchangeable state of affairs ie. you are Turk and I am not Turk"

It's kind of cliche but Zhuangzi wrote about dreaming of being a butterfly and not knowing if he's a man dreaming he's a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming he's a man.

 

[Turk February]

Okay so where are they and what are they composed of?

In our minds.

 

[T-t-t-Terry!]

In our minds.

You already conceded that they're independent of our minds so try again.

 

[T-t-t-Terry!]

The atheist almost always falls back on solopsism. They don't like it but it's unavoidable.

 

[Turk February]

You already conceded that they're independent of our minds so try again.

We are objects. Ideas and facts interact with us. Therefore they are objects.

 

[Turk February]

This isn't atheism. This is object oriented ontology. God is very real in object oriented ontology.

 

[T-t-t-Terry!]

We are objects. Ideas and facts interact with us. Therefore they are objects.

You've gone back to facts being mind-dependent. Pick a lane.

 

[Turk February]

You've gone back to facts being mind-dependent. Pick a lane.

I said there are 2 different sets of facts.