Are teachers the dumbest people alive?

[Monk]

All while the educators get several weeks off, no 12 hour days, and other benefits. While the parent of the kid they teach gets 2 weeks off a year.

One In Four Teachers Works 60-Plus Hours A Week

The working week has remained broadly stable for teachers over the past quarter century, suggesting that attempts to cut workload have so far failed.

www.forbes.com

I Get Paid for 180 Days of Work Each Year, but I Actually Work More Than 250

It's a full-time job with part-time pay.

www.weareteachers.com

 

[Mick_Mickerson]

One In Four Teachers Works 60-Plus Hours A Week

The working week has remained broadly stable for teachers over the past quarter century, suggesting that attempts to cut workload have so far failed.

www.forbes.com

I Get Paid for 180 Days of Work Each Year, but I Actually Work More Than 250

It's a full-time job with part-time pay.

www.weareteachers.com

The "study" is from England and appears to be self reported results.

Everyone exaggerates how much they work, but teachers have particular incentive to do so because they hate how everyone mentions the fact they get summers off (along with spring break and winter break and every major holiday).

I disagree with the premise of this thread and value teachers, but it's stupid to act like they work the same hours as a banker on wall street or an ER doctor.

 

[Monk]

The "study" is from England appears to be self reported results.

Everyone exaggerates how much they work, but teachers have particular incentive to do so because they hate how everyone mentions the fact they get summers off (along with spring break and winter break and every major holiday).

I disagree with the premise of this thread and value teachers, but it's stupid to act like they work the same hours as a banker on wall street or an ER doctor.

When do you think teachers grade papers, write lesson plans and do IEPs? Hint: not during school hours. All of that stuff is time-consuming. On top of that, teachers are usually required to work a certain amount of after-school activities like sporting events, concerts, plays, etc. All of that adds up over the course of a school year. They might not work ER doctor hours but they do enough outside of school hours to justify the summers off.

 

[Mick_Mickerson]

When do you think teachers grade papers, write lesson plans and do IEPs? Hint: not during school hours. All of that stuff is time-consuming. On top of that, teachers are usually required to work a certain amount of after-school activities like sporting events, concerts, plays, etc. All of that adds up over the course of a school year. They might not work ER doctor hours but they do enough outside of school hours to justify the summers off.

I'm not saying they work five hours a day -- I'm saying they don't work 12 if they utilize the Lesson Plan block they get during the day efficiently (I have an immediate family member and close college friend who teach) and finish things they need to after class. This is especially true for teachers who have been teaching the same grade/subject for many years. A new teacher I'm sure it's different.

I don't know what necesarilly ever "justifies" summers off -- that's a weird way to word it. An ER nurse certainly works enough hours during the school year to "Justify" having summers off but no other job has it. It's a really nice perk having winter break, spring break, every holiday and the summers off. I don't know why teachers freak out about people saying it's a nice perk. It doesn't make the work they do during the school year any less important or valuable.

 

[guest]

I'm not saying they work five hours a day -- I'm saying they don't work 12 if they utilize the Lesson Plan block they get during the day efficiently (I have an immediate family member and close college friend who teach) and finish things they need to after class. This is especially true for teachers who have been teaching the same grade/subject for many years. A new teacher I'm sure it's different.

I don't know what necesarilly ever "justifies" summers off -- that's a weird way to word it. An ER nurse certainly works enough hours during the school year to "Justify" having summers off but no other job has it. It's a really nice perk having winter break, spring break, every holiday and the summers off. I don't know why teachers freak out about people saying it's a nice perk. It doesn't make the work they do during the school year any less important or valuable.

You’re 100% right. The don’t write new lesson plans every year, they do it once then reuse that shit for years with minor revisions. With the internet these days it’s probably all out there for them already done. And grading children’s papers can’t take that long, they write like one page of shit that you could scan through pretty quick while drinking your boxed Costco Chardonnay.

 

[Brooke Shields]

didn't famous hollywood Jew Norm Macdonald have a bit about this? have the baby infants here ever had an original thought?

back in school I had a teacher with a big nose I used to rub my willard through my trousers and get hard in class looking at her bum

did it take you 9 minutes to remember that?

 

[Monk]

I substitute teach and my mom is a retired teacher so for the record, I have first-hand experience with this shit.

I'm not saying they work five hours a day -- I'm saying they don't work 12 if they utilize the Lesson Plan block they get during the day efficiently (I have an immediate family member and close college friend who teach) and finish things they need to after class. This is especially true for teachers who have been teaching the same grade/subject for many years. A new teacher I'm sure it's different.

And grading children’s papers can’t take that long, they write like one page of shit that you could scan through pretty quick while drinking your boxed Costco Chardonnay.

You're both treating all teaching workloads as though they're that of a math or kindergarten-early elementary teaching workload. Once you start getting into 5th/6th grade and above with subjects like science, reading, social studies, etc. you have to make sure everything is properly graded unless you want to deal with a bunch of angry parents wondering why their kid got a lower grade than they deserve.

The don’t write new lesson plans every year, they do it once then reuse that shit for years with minor revisions.

Again, you're coming from the assumption that all grade levels and subjects are the same. A math teacher might be able to get away with that but it's not possible in other subjects. The plans also have to be altered throughout the year because shit happens and different sections get ahead/behind in the material.

I don't know what necesarilly ever "justifies" summers off -- that's a weird way to word it. An ER nurse certainly works enough hours during the school year to "Justify" having summers off but no other job has it.

ER nurses get paid for all the hours they work. If a nurse is scheduled to work an 8-hour shift but ends up staying 12, they get paid for 12. Teaching contracts are for a set number of hours. Teachers don't get paid for working beyond the hours specified in their contract but they have to in order to keep up with grading work, writing IEPs, etc. Grading 5-6 sections(with each section having 20+ students) worth of work every day isn't something that can be done in the allotted planning periods in most subjects/grade levels.

 

[Mick_Mickerson]

ER nurses get paid for all the hours they work. If a nurse is scheduled to work an 8-hour shift but ends up staying 12, they get paid for 12. Teaching contracts are for a set number of hours. Teachers don't get paid for working beyond the hours specified in their contract but they have to in order to keep up with grading work, writing IEPs, etc. Grading 5-6 sections(with each section having 20+ students) worth of work every day isn't something that can be done in the allotted planning periods in most subjects/grade levels.

Are you saying teachers are working on random Wednesdays in July? I'm confused what you're arguing. (Obviously I'm not talking about those teaching summer school, but they get paid extra for actually working during the summer.)

Teachers have summers off, and it's a great perk. They also have winter break, spring break, and every major holiday off. Actually, my brother gets a "Fall Break" too and I don't know what the hell that even means. I think because they start earlier in August than other districts? In any event, lots of time off that is not the norm in other professions.

They also perform an extremely important function and many of them work very hard. Both of these things can be true at the same time.

 

[DiarrheaDick]

Yes.

 

[Monk]

Are you saying teachers are working on random Wednesdays in July? I'm confused what you're arguing. (Obviously I'm not talking about those teaching summer school, but they get paid extra for actually working during the summer.)

Teachers have summers off, and it's a great perk. They also have winter break, spring break, and every major holiday off. Actually, my brother gets a "Fall Break" too and I don't know what the hell that even means. I think because they start earlier in August than other districts? In any event, lots of time off that is not the norm in other professions.

They also perform an extremely important function and many of them work very hard. Both of these things can be true at the same time

I have no clue how you could get that out of what I'm saying. During the school year, any work that a teacher has to do(grading papers, writing IEPs) after the final bell rings is work they are not getting paid for. That adds up to a lot of unpaid hours over the course of a school year but having the summers off evens it all out in the long run. By that logic, summers off aren't as much of a perk as they are a way to get even for all the extra hours a teacher puts in that they aren't paid for during the school year.

"Fall break" is Thanksgiving. Most districts I know of have Wednesday-Friday off the week of Thanksgiving.

 

[Mick_Mickerson]

I have no clue how you could get that out of what I'm saying. During the school year, any work that a teacher has to do(grading papers, writing IEPs) after the final bell rings is work they are not getting paid for. That adds up to a lot of unpaid hours over the course of a school year but having the summers off evens it all out in the long run. By that logic, summers off aren't as much of a perk as they are a way to get even for all the extra hours a teacher puts in that they aren't paid for during the school year.

"Fall break" is Thanksgiving. Most districts I know of have Wednesday-Friday off the week of Thanksgiving.

What are you talking about? Teachers are not hourly employees. They are white-collar workers paid a salary to do the work required of them during the school year.

Do you think every time the clock strikes 5pm in an office a whistle blows like an old-school factory and everyone leaves? No, a lot of people are still there working and they don't get compensated anymore for their extra time in the office. Or they're doing the extra work at home at night or on the weekends.

And they definitely don't get a summer off to "make up" for the extra hours worked.

 

[IGotATreeOnMyHouse85]

I remember reading something about a year ago from Baltimore how one senior had missed hundreds of days over their HS years and had something like 0.34 GPA and was still in a top percent of the class. The schools themselves have lowered the bar that they will pass anyone because it’s racist to give bad grades to black kids and then they get into colleges even with shit scores and are passed again for affirmative action. Some teachers can be good but have to do dumb shit ordered by the school.

 

[Monk]

What are you talking about? Teachers are not hourly employees. They are white-collar workers paid a salary to do the work required of them during the school year.

That's not how their contracts work. Their contracts specifically state that the teacher's salary is for x amount of school days and between just before the start of the school day and the end.

Do you think every time the clock strikes 5pm in an office a whistle blows like an old-school factory and everyone leaves? No, a lot of people are still there working and they don't get compensated anymore for their extra time in the office. Or they're doing the extra work at home at night or on the weekends.

Most salaried workers have a large chunk of the workday available to get their tasks done. Teachers spend their workday teaching and get a single 40-50 minute planning period which is not enough time to grade 100+ students' work and do other shit they're required to do.

You keep comparing teaching to other professions but there are fundamental differences between teaching and most white-collar professions.

 

[Mick_Mickerson]

That's not how their contracts work. Their contracts specifically state that the teacher's salary is for x amount of school days and between just before the start of the school day and the end.

Yes, their contract says they need to teach kids for X amount of days and they get paid a salary for it vs. getting an hourly wage.

Just like salaried office workers get paid to do their job, but if they work late they don't get anything extra. If you want teachers to start having a timecard and punching in and out, that might be interesting. Because then there will be supervisors determining whether or not the Overtime they are working makes sense.

And there will start being competition. Mrs. Jones taught her classes and punched out at 4:12 p.m. and still met the standards, but Mrs. Smith stayed until 6 p.m. and met the same standard.... etc. etc.

 

[aRTie02150]

Yes, their contract says they need to teach kids for X amount of days and they get paid a salary for it vs. getting an hourly wage.

Just like salaried office workers get paid to do their job, but if they work late they don't get anything extra. If you want teachers to start having a timecard and punching in and out, that might be interesting. Because then there will be supervisors determining whether or not the Overtime they are working makes sense.

And there will start being competition. Mrs. Jones taught her classes and punched out at 4:12 p.m. and still met the standards, but Mrs. Smith stayed until 6 p.m. and met the same standard.... etc. etc.

Lol that would be kinda funny to see Mrs. Smith get pulled to the side and have her numbers brought up to her and the anxiety she'd fell for having to be realistically rated on her performance.

Kids will learn what they want if they have an interest in it. Kids smart enough to utilize the internet to learn about said interests and go beyond what a teacher can teach them.

I'm very thankful I was in school when the internet starting getting big.

 

[Monk]

Yes, their contract says they need to teach kids for X amount of days and they get paid a salary for it vs. getting an hourly wage.

Just like salaried office workers get paid to do their job, but if they work late they don't get anything extra. If you want teachers to start having a timecard and punching in and out, that might be interesting. Because then there will be supervisors determining whether or not the Overtime they are working makes sense.

And there will start being competition. Mrs. Jones taught her classes and punched out at 4:12 p.m. and still met the standards, but Mrs. Smith stayed until 6 p.m. and met the same standard.... etc. etc.

That's not how their contracts work. Their contracts specifically state that the teacher's salary is for x amount of school days and between just before the start of the school day and the end.

Haha holeee shit, what the fuck. Cherry-picking to support your circular reasoning. Tapping out on this complete waste of time.

 

[FranksWirecutters]

Ignoring everyone else. Ok sorry that the first year teacher only makes $28/hr. They're getting fucked by the retiree making $68/hr. I know a chick who hires them and the pity party of "They're so poor" is retarded. They should make 280k their first year of work? Eat dick you babysitter.